Bigsley the Oaf ([info]bigsleytheoaf) wrote,
@ 2007-09-26 22:15:00
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Atheism is not enough
It is not enough to be an atheist.
Hell, I'm an atheist and I hardly even notice.

You can't argue with religion.
Why?

Because no one cares.

The thing that most stupid fucking atheists can't get through their stupid fucking heads is that no one gives a damn.
No one cares about god.
No one cares about education.
People claim to care.
People have opinions and they argue them
They devote millions of dollars to religion, to educational reform, to environmental reform.
But they don't actually care.

No, they care about their lives.

This is why it gets so fucked up, you see.

Deep down, in the pit of every single person, is a burning self-interest.
A burning self-concern which makes him or her care most intimately about him or herself and things thereto related.

People who claim to care about the environment just care about themselves.
Now, I'm not making that same stupid fucking argument that "everyone who gives to charity does it because it makes them feel good."
Feeling good has nothing to do with it.

My point here is that people aren't gods.
People feel like gods.
People feel like they have every choice in the world
Like every second that goes by, they can just pick it all up, move it somewhere else, and start over.
Like they can start something new.

But no, people are very very particular.
Each person has devoted his or her time to studying one thing
Or a small set of things.
(well, not every person, e.g. not yours truly and not a small group of people yours truly respects)

They can't just switch.
How could they?
There's no bootstrap!

If you care about X, you can't just suddenly start caring about Y
Especially if you care about X enough!

"Now wait!" you'll say.
You said no one cares.

Well, ok, you caught me, the word has two meanings.

No one Cares (capital C).

This is my definition of Caring (capital C):
If you are willing bow your head humbly and say "I don't know, I really never knew, I want to learn more and do the best that I can." Then you Care (capital C).

I have heard only a few people say such a thing, and I respect those people more than anyone else in the world.

Here are some proofs that people don't Care about what they claim to (please forgive me if I forget to capitalize the "C" in Care)

---

Religious people don't care about god.
Proof:

If I cared about god, the first thing I would do
The most obvious thing, is decide to devote my life to His name.
Why? Because he's all fucking powerful!
Who the fuck cares about anything else?
There is a being of infinite power.

Some people believe that he has the power to send you to heaven or hell for eternity.
If such people sin
Ever
They are morons.
-or-
They don't _actually_ believe/Care.
If I believed that some being had such a power over me, then i would be a real dumbfuck if I ever did anything even remotely close to sinning. I would move into the forest, bow my head, and pray humbly every fucking day hoping for my soul to be saved.

No, religious people (or at least, every single one I have ever met) Care about:
1.) Culture
2.) Values associated with religion
3.) Other people who are religious
4.) Spiritual experience (much different from religion)
5.) Status quo
the list goes on and on

---

Atheist people don't Care about being atheists.
Proof:

Why the fuck would you care? It's atheism. It's like, I don't care about not believing in space ghouls. Well, I kind of do care since it would be pretty righteous with a capital R if such a thing existed, but that's beside the point.

---

(OK that wasn't fair, this is more important):

Atheists like Richard Dawkins, etc. do not Care about the truth:

They care about Atheism as a cause. They care about making people atheist. They care about very specific things related to their interests, but not about spreading understanding, etc.

Rhetoric over Reason.

I hate how much I hear atheists make retarded arguments. I'm like: "Come on, you already won one battle! Why are you arguing for socialism? You fucking tard, it's the same thing! Value cult! Value cult!"

---

Environmentalists do not care about the Environment:

As with everything else, if you really cared about the environment then you would devote more time to it, and you would try to think very constructively about what sorts of arguments are valid, what sorts of arguments are invalid, and what sorts of things we have to do to figure out things in the middle. Knowledge is not just going to fall into your lap about what to do, you have to think about it you pigfucks!

I am tired of hearing people tell me to turn off the lights, go vegan, stop driving in my car, etc.

None of this has anything to do with saving the environment (as I have argued before and will argue again, but I'm getting tired of these proofs).

---

This brings me to my big old point:

People who care care about SYSTEMS.

SYSTEMS are the important thing.

Blaming a dictator, blaming the american population, blaming a first grade class, it's all the fucking same.
You can criticize until you're blue in the face
You can change local properties until the cows shit milk
Any sufficiently large (read: 2) group of people will just keep on smiling and doing what they're doing
You will NEVER change anything because you are not CHANGING THE SYSTEM.

CHANGE THE SYSTEM TO SHOW YOU CARE.

The reason that people in the United States suck a big fucking dick right now is that our
SYSTEMS SUCK
The government sucks, education sucks, environmental standards suck, foreign policy sucks.

None of these are PEOPLE
stop blaming PEOPLE
blame the SYSTEM
kill the SYSTEM
down with the SYSTEM
long live the SYSTEM
SYSTEM SYSTEM SYSTEM SYSTEM

Now stop talking all of your GARBAGE NONSENSE PSEUDO-PHILOSOPHY BULLSHIT AND GO OUT AND CHANGE THE SYSTEM.

Like I will do.
Or move into the woods and have goats.



(Post a new comment)


[info]kmai
2007-09-26 10:54 pm UTC (link)
goats are stinky.

(Reply to this)


[info]zarvoczarvoc
2007-10-01 12:07 am UTC (link)
I'm not going to change the system, I'm going to move to where there is a better system and create a sub-system that lives and breathes inside of it and is different in subtle, useful, and creative ways, and hopefully continues to evolve to be all non-rhetorical and more conceptual. Because: I don't believe the American system is capable of change. And: you're coming with me.

(Reply to this)

a question i've been meaning to ask for a while
[info]aresnickety
2008-02-29 08:37 am UTC (link)
How do you reconcile these ideas with the fact that some of us want to Care about more than one thing?

For instance, I'm extremely ambivalent about veganism. In general, I'm struggling with how to reason about individual action of precisely the type you criticize. I don't think the way for the concerns associated with veganism to be championed is by an ad campaign aimed at creating more vegans. The long term solutions will involve decentralizing food production, making it easy to be vegan, pairing animal rights to human rights, etc. Systemic concerns.

But, I don't care enough to devote my time to those things. On the other hand, it's easy for me to make the incidental decision to be vegan. Incidental decisions are what's really behind _c_aring. Caring (that is, Caring) requires Devotion, and I only have enough time to Care for a couple things, if that.

Initially, I thought my confusion about this was due to problems reasoning about low probabilities. I'm increasingly suspicious that these are false issues raised by the difference between conceptual and functional consistency. When we talk about consistency, we fail to differentiate (worse, there's a very blurry line separating the two, with a width as large as your difficulty estimating the impact of decisions involving small numbers in big systems--i.e. low probabilities). Being vegan is conceptually consistent but functionally irrelevant. Comparing the cost of veganism to the probability of benefit is impossible--I cannot make predictions about most of the incidental decisions I make motivated by a desire for conceptual consistency (e.g. I don't want to be party to cruelty to animals; I want to live sustainably, in the environmental sense; etc.).

To muddy the waters even more, I'm not willing to rule out incidental decision making as valueless. In many cases, a data dearth is the issue. This is the problem ThoughtAndMemory.org is trying to solve: they want you to be able to get information about a corporation's behavior along several dimensions (think environmental, political) at the point of purchase by taking a picture of a UPC with your cell phone. Informed decision complicates these issues.

Any suggestions?

(Reply to this)


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